Heather Stefanson: Women in Politics

0:01  
ANNOUNCER today on strong like a girl, we'll be chatting with a prominent woman in business and politics. I know her to be kind smart and have a really good sense of humour. We'll talk about the space for women in politics and how far we've come, if we have come far at all. So let's kick this off with a quote from Agnes MacPhail, Canada's first women MP known for her sharp wit and trailblazing spirit, she represented the riding of gray southeast in Ontario for the Progressive Party of Canada, and she was first elected in 1921 I do not want to be the angel of any home. I want for myself. What I want for other women, absolute equality. So Heather Stefanson is a Canadian former politician who served as the 24th premier of Manitoba from 2021 to 2023 she is the first woman in the province's history to hold that role. She is a former leader of the Progressive Conservative Party of Manitoba, and served as leader of the opposition to Manitoba after the 2023 election, she was a member of the Legislative Assembly and MLA for the electoral district of tuxedo until May of last year, and she currently sits as a director on the board for WestJet and Canada packers. So Hi, Heather, how are you and where are you calling in from today,

1:13  
Maya, I'm great. It's so great to be back with you today. It's been a while since we've had a chance to chat, and I think this is a great way and a great subject to talk about. So I am in my my home and in Winnipeg right now. It's an absolutely beautiful day outside, but I'm super excited about this podcast. And you know what? Thank you for doing this. I think this is a great thing for Canadian women and for women around the world.

1:37  
Frankly, I appreciate that. Thank you. I'll tell you, I'm sure learning a lot of things that I didn't know. So it's, it's been a fun ride, and so I appreciate you, you being willing to take a shot on on me as a new interviewer and podcaster and and just believing in this project

1:54  
Absolutely. And we'll have a little bit of fun on the way. Right? I hope

1:57  
so. I hope so. I hope so. When we met, I was just about to become the president of the Brandon Chamber of Commerce, and you were running for the leader of the Progressive Conservative Party of Manitoba. And I remember I approached you to introduce myself, and what I said was, I really hope your premier when I'm president. And you smiled and agreed. Do you remember that?

2:19  
I do remember that. And I think right away we just hit it off. I think we understand the importance of more women in leadership roles in our province and in our country. And I think it sort of started with that at that moment. So it's a special moment, I think, that we share.

2:37  
Yeah, and you were successful in that bit and then became the premier, what first inspired you to get into politics

2:43  
well, as Were you successful as well? So that's kind of exciting as well. And we were there at the same time, just to close that loop, which was really good. And I think we were able to get some things done at that time. So that was an exciting thing, to be able to work together. What made me get involved in politics. I mean, it really goes back so many years. I was elected for a little under 25 years to the Manitoba legislature. So started off in opposition for 16 years, and then went into government after that. Prior to that, I was in the investment business as an investment advisor, and I had to make there was that fork in the road at the time, as as we all get into in our lives, is, you know, what am I going to do next? I didn't have children at the time. I was just turning 30 years old, and I was trying to say, okay, which, which path am I going to take in life? Am I going to go down this one or that one? And I, I was sitting on Gary philman's executive in tuxedo at the time he stepped down from his seat, and I thought, now's the time to make a run for this, you know. And really what instilled on me prior to this, my parents were a big part of my life, particularly my mother and my grandmother, about giving back to the community. And so I thought, this is my opportunity. I'm going to do this. Now, I was young and naive, certainly at the time, and felt that this was going to be a time that I could make a huge difference in everyone's lives. And at the time, my number one issue was to keep my friends and young people in Manitoba, and keep them from moving to places like, you know, Saskatchewan, Alberta and south of the border, even back then. So that's really what, what got me involved in the first place.

4:27  
So I mean, obviously, from your comments and stuff, it does run in your blood and your family and a keen interest in in bettering. You know where you live and work, right? And I share that I do echo. You know the time as chamber president, you know, one of the highlights for me, certainly was meeting you and getting that kind of level of exposure to provincial politics and just a better understanding of how it works, right? Like how money flows, how, like, all the different kinds of decision making and stuff like that, which I would encourage anybody to learn more about those things. Because I think. It impacts the decisions you make, not only when you're voting, but you know, among other things. So I do think it's very important work for sure. You know, what were some of the biggest challenges you faced early in your career as a woman entering, you know, pretty male dominated field. Yeah, when

5:17  
I was first elected, I was 30, so that was pretty young. I mean, not the youngest, I think I was the youngest person in the legislature at the time, but not the youngest ever, at 30, but Bonnie mitchelson, who was really a mentor of mine at the time. She had been a cabinet minister in Gary philman's government, and, you know, we were sitting in opposition, and so Bonnie was, was a great, you know, help to me. When I first got elected, I was pretty intimidated. I was in a young woman and a room full of a lot of men, and I didn't know what I was doing, even though I had worked in politics before. Until you're actually elected, it's very, very different. So I can recall one day when I guess caucus starts at 1245, we go in. We're just starting session. It's the first day of session that I'm going into. And we go into the session, into the chamber at 130 question period is 40 minutes, and then you sort of move on from there. And I thought that I only had to be there for caucus and question period. Had no idea that I had to, you know, at that time, there was no duty, house duty, or anything like that. So I thought every day, wow. So all I have to do is go to a caucus meeting at, you know, and then I'm out basically by three o'clock. I mean, this is a good deal, until Bonnie came to me one day and said, you know, Heather, you do have to stick around after question, because the debate goes on into bills and but no one had ever explained that to me. I came in in a by election, so with the leader, Stuart Murray at the time. So a lot of the focus and emphasis was on him and getting him up to speed with and trained as the leader in the chamber, but not so much as as a newly elected, you know, in a by election, individual in a by election. So it was quite funny at the time, and and I realized, so I went into to caucus the next day and sort of apologized and said that Bonnie read the riot act with me. So, so now I know what I'm doing here, but, but there are some fun days like that too, and I certainly have learned a lot since I took on that role.

7:27  
You need those advocates. You need those people who are going to give you those coaching moments and and right that advice. And you know, I remember very clearly reg Heller, who was the MLA for Brandon West for us when I was chamber president, we went to a Remembrance Day ceremony, and as the chamber president, I had to lay a wreath and things. And I had no idea, zero direction, nothing. And Reg, very quickly, came up to me and said, Okay, so here's what you got to do. And gave me all and I was just like, Thank God for you, Reg, right? Because I was televised. I was like, like, I don't know. Like, great. And so I think having advocates and people that are going to help you out in those absolutely moments are absolutely

8:07  
key. And I think that's a key point too, is that it's not just, you know, the women that we learn from, it's men to help us in our roles as well. And so, you know, we're all in this together and and to the extent that we can help each other out, you know, and reg is one of those great guys who's a team player and always has been and a wonderful person, so I miss working with him,

8:31  
yeah, you know, Heather, one thing I can tell you is one I agree with you on the assessment of Reg, but most of the folks I encountered and spoke With spoke very, very highly about working with you and what a great leader you were and and you yourself were a team player, and how much you relied on them to just do the job they had been asked to do. And I think oftentimes we get away from that as leaders, and we tend to want to be overarching, especially with things that have great importance linked to them. And so that was one of the things for sure that I heard from them about you,

9:06  
yeah, oh, well, that's, you know, it's nice. I I think it is very important to empower people to do the job that they were elected or appointed to do. And you know, you have to have the faith and people that you have given those opportunities to and allow them to grow and flourish and make their own mistakes along the way. And there's nothing wrong with that. I always said to everyone, and I learned this from a previous job I had where my boss said to me, You know what, when you make a mistake, it's okay, just you just know and understand why you made the decision you made, and just stand up for it and own it. And if you make a mistake, then just you know, then just say so,

9:49  
yeah, I agree. I always tell our team, and my job is really to give you the tools, resources and things that you need to do the job we've asked you to do, right and to make that easy. And if you make. A mistake, please don't hide it. Please don't hide it. Tell me, because we can't fix it if I don't know. Right, right? You know, have you seen the role for women and kind of the the voices of women in politics evolve since you started like there would be more women involved now, right?

10:14  
Yeah. I mean, from the days of of Nellie McClung, and you mentioned Agnes, MacPhail, Margaret konantz, I mean, for back from those days, I think we have, but I think we've had some serious ups and downs along the way. When you look across the country right now, there's still just two women as premiers across the country. We've still only had one woman as prime minister of our country, you know. So we haven't evolved in the last 25 years the way we should have, I think, and the way that I think we can. But I think what is happening these days, and I, you know, I think in politics, it's become so adversarial. I think it turns women off from from from running. Why do they want to be picked apart that way and treated that way when they don't need to be, you know? So I think it is turning people off the negativity in politics, and so I hope we can change that. I don't think it's going to happen, as long as what's happening in the US with with with that kind of style of politics happening right now, because it does infiltrate into Canada. You know, it is here as well, and I'm not a fan of that. I never have been. I think our last campaign was negative. No one ever likes the negativity of a campaign. They always say it does work to change people's minds and that sort of thing. But I didn't get involved for the politics. I got involved to get things done. And so to me, the politics tended to get in the way of getting things done more often than not. And I think that would be an example of probably why and why we don't have more women involved today. Is the adversarial nature of all this. I think

12:00  
I agree with you. We just started a group here to try and get more women elected to City Council. So there's a bunch of us, and it's really just to kind of throw our, you know, our support and resources behind folks and help them be the best version of themselves when they go ahead and want to compete for that, but that's one of the things that has come up a lot, and I wouldn't say it's so evident here in municipal politics, but you see it everywhere else, right? And I was curious, like, how, how do you deal, or, how did you deal with, like, the crappy comments that people would make, like, just about how we look, right? And, you know, you and I are similar ages, and I just, you know, I've spent so much of my life worried about how much I weigh and what I look like, and, you know, all of that stuff, I probably manufactured some. So what was the mental work you did to just go, You know what? That doesn't matter and do your day job is running the province, like being the premier of the province, and not letting any of that kind of tick away and eat away at your

12:59  
confidence. Well, and the key word is confidence. And I think that is the most important thing that we can teach young women today, is to to be more confident in what they do. And I think this next generation coming along is is much more confident, certainly, than I was, you know, growing up, and that's a really good thing. They're strong, strong, like a woman. Yeah. I mean, at times, I used to sit down and say, Are you kidding me? I've got to go get my hair done and my makeup done. That's not my that's not who I am. Figuring out what to wear on a daily basis, because you're out in front of the media all the time, and so all of those things. I mean, I had to sort of reach out to friends for help, because it's not my area of expertise. It's just not something that I ever really I mean, you care, you want to be presentable, and all of these things. But when it becomes the number one issue, I think that that's a problem, and I, I do think it's unfair, but it is a reality. So I guess it's, you know, we got to just learn to embrace it and do it. But I will tell you, spend more time, you know, half the time trying to, you know, make sure I'm wearing the right thing, I've got the right hairdo and everything else. You know, I'd have to stay up later at night being briefed properly, and reading the briefing notes and everything else for the next day. It just takes up more time in the day, and it's unfortunate, but it is, you know, the reality of what we live in, but when you go out and you hear the negativity from people, sir, it's hurtful, but I recognize that people are just angry for various reasons, and it's more to do with them than it is to do with me, and it's really important to separate yourself from the job that you and the role that you're playing. So they were angry at the premier of Manitoba, they were angry at the Justice Minister. They were angry at, you know, because they're angry about a certain thing. In their life. They're not angry at me personally. They don't know me personally, you know. So there is a real need to separate yourself from the role that you are in. But that is not easy to do at times. It's tough, and we all go through. It's not just women in politics, it's women in business, it's women you know, across the board, how do we get together and support one another? Because often, and I don't know if you found this Tanya, but often, we can be our own worst enemies, and we're not supporting each other the way that we need to be doing. So that's the conversation that I think we really need to continue and that we need to have. And I'm so glad that you're doing this podcast, because it's so important for women to feel confident in what they're doing, but to also, you know, know, and understand the importance of supporting one another.

15:55  
Yes, exactly. That's exactly it like, just we get in our own way, you know. And they always say, you know, little girls, or girls, teenage girls, are mean. I think everybody can be mean, but I think that's a learned skill. Like I think we, you know, we teach people how to be like that. I don't think kids are inherently built like that. You

16:16  
know. I just was asked to join an organization, the International Women's Forum. So IWF, and it is a wonderful organization of women who have been in the top leadership roles, whether they're, you know, the president of their companies or their nonprofit, the head of their nonprofits, or in politics, you know, there's chapters all across the country. The Manitoba chapter started back in 2022 I just was asked and and just so honored to be asked to be a part of that. And I think that is a forum where we can learn from different chapters around the world. What is, what are other countries doing to embrace, you know, working together as women, and I think this is one organization that has been around for a while now, and I think will be, will be great moving in that direction to make sure we're all working together.

17:14  
Right on, that sounds great. What a compliment. Good for you.

17:17  
It was really nice to be, to be asked, and very cool.

17:21  
I just want to circle back on what you said about kind of separating yourself from the because it's, it's abuse, right? Years ago, I took training on dealing with children in abuse, and one of the things they said is, you need to separate the act from the person, right. Right? Is, is, I'm sorry, something so bad happened to somebody so good, and that's, that's what you did, to kind of reconcile how to move forward and leave it where it is. So that struck me as very interesting, that you know that that was a tactic you use, and I think it's something that everybody can use when you're in a position of scrutiny, and they use personal things to try and get to you in different ways that are really kind of deflecting from the issue at hand, like you said, they're angry about something right, probably something very personal to them. I'm gonna absolutely right, absolutely and so, yeah, good on you for being able to separate that and still do your day job. I mean, I just think it must have been hard.

18:14  
Yeah, you don't want to diminish the importance of what that person is going through. You know, they're going through something for a reason. But let's dig down and see what the reason is for that, and let's try and sit down and have a civil conversation, rather than, you know, through the media or or anything else. And I will tell you, Tanya, that I didn't learn that from someone else. I I learned it the hard way, because I It wasn't easy at first, but then I just came to that conclusion, like I have to separate myself, because it really isn't about me, it is about the role that I'm in. It's really not about you, it's about it's about them and maybe the position that that you're in.

18:57  
So yeah, the responsibilities that you have because we are similar ages, and like a lot of women, either leave positions or get let go from positions at this point in their life, when they're going through perimenopause and menopause for a variety of reasons. You know, did any of that play a factor for you?

19:15  
So this is an interesting question, and I've been pretty open about this, but at one point, my doctor said to me, Look, you have a choice to make here, because I had what's called adenomyosis, and pretty severely. So I would have attacked stomach attacks, very serious ones that would last for days. And you know, I didn't tell anyone. I tried to hide it, I, you know, but it got to be so bad, I went to the doctor, and he said, Well, this is only going to get worse, and the only, the only remedy for this Heather is to have a full radical, like hysterectomy. And so I went through that a number of years ago. And so I went into menopause right away. Um. Um, because my mom passed away of ovarian cancer when she was 64 and I remember the Ovarian Cancer Society always saying to me, if you have any stomach issues, don't let anyone tell you that it's something else. It could be ovarian cancer. And so I went through being tested for Crohn's, which I do have as well, but that was not the root of this kind of pain that I was in, though, so I went through that, and I think people need to talk more about this. It's okay. I was afraid to talk about it, which is wrong. I mean, I should be able to talk to anyone about it. But I do remember coming back. I had a bit of a leave, and I came back from that, and I remember a reporter asking me, so we heard you were away for a procedure. Did you have it done in a private hospital? Like, you know, really, no, I had it done at the Health Sciences Center women's, you know, yeah. I mean, I just, you know, and that's all they could ask was, you know, not, how are you doing? How are you feeling? You know, what kind of message does this, you know, send to to young women out there? And I hope, I hope from this they can, they can take away that you don't have to hide the pain. You don't have to hide the things you're going through, and don't ignore pain. Make sure that you get, you know, properly looked at, and you look after yourself first, because if you're not looking after yourself first, you can't look after anyone else. And it's the old adage. So, so yeah, so I went through menopause right away, which was no fun, but I remember when that reporter asked that question, I was at the podium, and I just was drenched in perspiration. I was like, Oh my God, this hot flash just came over me. And I said, Well, here we are sure you can relate, right? But

21:57  
it's so crazy, it yeah, all the different things, right? Like, and at one point my doctor said to me, Well, you know, like parts of your body are like they're dying. And I'm like, ew, like they're dying inside of me. Like, What a thing to think about, right? But like, you probably the timeframe we grew up in, like, like, never talked about menstruation, even, never mind anything else that was going on, right? And you just suffered through, like, if you had a bad period or whatever, you just kept going, you know? I So, I agree with you. I think we have to talk about it, which is why I do and we'll do more on this program, because I think it's, it's really the only way for people to have a better understanding of all the different things that women are challenged with, you know, and still carrying all the loads of career and work and family and home and all the other things too, right? And but I don't know what that condition is that you said you had atomosis. Is that you said

22:51  
adenomyosis, so it's a thickening of the wall of it, of the uterus, and so it just keeps getting kind of worse. And as you know, it causes acute pain and into the area. And so a lot of people have had endometriosis, so that's before. This is something after you have children. And so, you know, I shouldn't, I shouldn't talk like I know what I'm talking about at all. I just know that's what the doctor said I've got because don't. I'm by no means an expert in this area, but what I will say is that if you have pain like that, it's not normal. It's not going away. I thought, is this stress related? Is this, you know, I was told it was, you know, stress related. No, it's not stress related. It's, it's, you know, a very serious condition, so that a lot more women go through than than we realize,

23:41  
yes and please do go and get things checked out. You know, I got diagnosed earlier this year with, like, really, really low iron, so borderline anemia. And I had, like, I mean, once you look at that, I had, like, all the things. And my doctor said to me, like, not everything is menopause, right? Like, there's sometimes other things that are like, well, I don't know. Like, it just, you know, I had headaches and I felt, you know, fatigue, and I said, so all the things. And I was just like, well, I don't know. I guess it's menopause. And he was like, it's not menopause. Like, not everything is menopause. Like, you have to get things checked out. So, yeah, good flag for anybody who's listening, certainly, and, you know, just take the utmost care with, with yourself and and anything you know, your body, something feels out of whack, then, you know, yeah.

24:22  
And I think as women, we sort of just, you know, I mean, we think, Oh well, we dismiss it because, okay, it's yeah, it's probably just this, that's okay, and yeah, and we go about our day and, and that's how things build up and how we get sick. So I think that's why we, we really need to send that message out, you know, to younger women to watch out for this and the signs and symptoms and everything else, and make sure you get tested

24:48  
and to stop suffering. Like, honestly, exactly, I would have the headache so bad, like, the part of my face would be, like, almost paralyzed, right? Like, almost like Stroke, stroke, like aura, and I'd be at work. Burke and my staff, and I'd be like, I can't really talk properly right now, but they're like, what?

25:05  
And you should get ridiculous on so to speak, right? And she's like, why do we do this? You know?

25:11  
Yeah, I'm obviously a supporter of yours. And likewise, by the way, yeah, well, thank you. We had an instant connection, and I think, you know, I just, I really appreciated you. And one of the things that continually seemed to come up while you're premier was people would say, well, she's not very engaging. So I would always say, Okay, so tell me what you mean by that. And they would have no answer, right? They'd be like, Well, I don't know. And I'm like, Well, why? Like, why do you think that? And they're they say, well, everybody says that. I go, right, but what? Like? Where does it come from? Like, what like? What is, what is it like? What about her is not engaging, you know? And I think you look at, you know, our current sitting Premier, wob canoe, who is a trained media personality, right? So it'd be like putting me up against, like, Mel Robbins, or somebody else, or, you know, like they're trained in that space, right? They got so many years experience in it. And I think it's, you know, it's a bit of an unfair advantage, the level of training. He probably had to be in the public eye and present like that, right? So did you take any like media training, public media training, things like that,

26:15  
you know, people say, Oh, well, she's been involved, and she's, she's been elected for 25 years, so she should be trained to do all this well. You know, being a backbench opposition. MLA, at the age of 30, like you're not, you're not out in front of the media every day. You're not, you know, you're not trained the way you are, until you actually get into government. And government is a completely different position and game than than opposition we were never really given. I mean, yes, have the odds seminar or something like this, but never enough, and certainly never to the extent he was. I'm also, like, a little bit, I mean, you know me a little bit better. I think a lot of people just didn't know me. I'm, I'm inherently a little bit more. I don't know shy, and I'm not, I don't like to be the limelight of things. I like to just kind of get the job done. And so that's sort of the the person I am. And so it doesn't come naturally to me to be that front and center person. And I found that probably one of the most difficult things is that I don't want to be that person. I just want to get the job done.

27:21  
Yeah, fair enough. Very similar to you, which always surprises people, but I'm actually very introverted, not that I can't speak in public and do things, but I'm very introverted, right? And I spent a lot of time alone and reading and in nature and things like that, to kind of recharge my batteries, right? And that was the least desirable part was, was having to do that. And I know even as being like, the small role of being chamber president here in Brandon Manitoba, the amount of times you speak to the media, and you're like, I have no idea what they're going to actually

27:54  
print, right? Oh no, or what they're going to ask, or what

27:57  
they're going to ask, and you're like, oh boy. And I don't think people who have never been in those positions have a great appreciation for how fast you have to think and process information and thoughts in order to be able to spew out anything that would be kind of useful, right, and not put you in a poor light.

28:14  
Like, yeah. I think, I think one of the most important things too, in all of that, is just to be yourself. And I think I had difficulty just being myself at times, because I felt it's like this game, and you know, this political game that is uncomfortable to me. I would rather sit in a room with with people who have challenges and issues and work with them to overcome those challenges that they're facing in life. And to me, you know that that's the real role of government, is to help the people in our province. So I think, I think it was challenging for me. I was being kind of torn in different directions. You know, you've got to be tougher on this. You've got to be, well, I'm not inherently a negative kind of tough and you know, person, right? So it's, you know, when you're asked to be something that you're not, it doesn't come across very naturally. So be yourself, be who you are, and don't let anyone tell you to be something other than that, because you were elected to be, you know, to be in that position for a reason, and so, so trust the people that elected you to do it.

29:26  
Yeah, well, that's, that's a pretty honest answer. So thank you for that. And I would say, give yourself a bit of a break, because, you know, under intense scrutiny 100% of the time, right? And that's very difficult for anybody, but again, with all of the personal things that people had coming at you, and to be able to just put that aside and do the job and like, just, yeah, great respect for you for that.

29:53  
Well, thank you. Yeah, thanks. I mean, listen, don't get me wrong, there were some amazing times that I met. Some incredible people, including people like you that will be friends for life. You know, I also had a lot of fun along the way. I mean, you have to laugh. You have to be able to laugh at things and laugh at yourself for for doing silly things that you shouldn't be doing. But have fun with the people that are around you as well. And I think, you know, we used to sort of joke and say, you know, you can't make this stuff up. You know, that things just happen. And you just sit back and you laugh and say, I can't even believe this just happened, but it did, and here we are. And you know, I enjoy getting to know colleagues and on both sides the house, frankly, sure, there's some wonderful people on both sides of the chamber. And I enjoyed that over the years. I think it became much more adversarial near the end than it was at the beginning. I remember at the beginning I had a lot of people from from the NDP coming over and and, you know, congratulating me on, on winning my seat. And, you know, you just don't see as much of that anymore. And I think we need to get back to that. We're all elected to represent the people in our constituencies. We're all equal here, and everyone should be treated that

31:17  
way. You know, when I grew up and kind of coming up in politics, just learning, you know, about politics and voting and all that kind of stuff. It was very much that you could believe what you believe, and I believe what I believe, and we could have a chat about it, but, you know, we could still break bread or have a drink or whatever. And I feel very much that, you know, that has separated and changed. I know people that live in the United States and people in their families who don't speak to each other, because, you know, one supports Republican and one supports the Democratic Party. And I just think, Wow. You know, we got to let people believe what they want to believe and and still be able to communicate.

31:55  
I mean, there's been a lot of challenges over the last, you know, number of years, including going through a worldwide pandemic, right, which is really polarized people, and including, you know, dividing families, which was very challenging. You know, you've got the war that broke out in Ukraine, and you know now it's happening in Israel. And you know, there's been some very, very serious challenges and huge economic challenges across this country and around the world, as well, as a result of many of those things. So it really has divided people, and I think now more than ever, we need to find ways to to bring people back together and finding common ground, a commonality. You talked about having good

32:40  
memories while you're Premier. One of my, my favorite memories of being the President of the Chamber while your premier is when you attended our it's now called the women of West man conference, but it was called the Superwoman conference, right? And my friend Shelley Ray fell off the stage, and she she fell off the back of the stage. She just kind of, I guess, like the curtain was or whatever, and then she bounced back up like a whack a mole, like, she was just like, right back up and totally delivered her speech. I just saw her last Friday, and we had a good laugh about it, and you were so composed that I was losing it. I was like, I can't even like I was my shoulders were shaking. I was laughing so hard.

33:18  
But you know what I mean, I've done stuff like that before. Whereas, you know, you get tripping, you're trying to get on stage, or, you know, this or that, or whatever, and you know, those, those moments. But the important thing, she handled it so well, incredible. She is amazing. And, yeah, and those are the amazing things that we need to remember, is that it's not about what happens, it's how you react to it. And and she just bounced right back up and got, you know, right back on our game, and did an amazing job.

33:47  
So, yeah, like a champ, yeah, Shelly was fine. Anybody listening? Shelly was fine. She was not hurt. She was 100% fine, yeah. But she, yeah, she, she's a champ. No question about it. Yeah. Absolutely. Were there moments when you're like, What am I doing in politics? Why am I doing this? Should I go somewhere else and do something else, or go back to your other life and things like that, like that, you wanted to give up?

34:14  
No, I would say that I was so committed to what I was doing that it was, you know, sometimes day by day, sometimes hour by hour, through some of those really challenging times during covid and whatnot, you soldier on. You put your one foot in front of the other, and you continue on. You put your game face on, and you get out and you get things done. So, so no, I didn't at any time. I mean, were there some challenging times where you say, oh my goodness, like, wow, how do I how do I deal with this? Because it's so challenging, yes, but you make a decision and you move on, and you stand by the decisions that you make, and they're not always the right decisions, but that's. What being a leader is all about. You're forced to make decisions that are not always going to be right. But I will say, looking back now, I sort of say, Okay, now I now I see why people ask me the question like, was there any time that you wanted to get out of that, or would you ever go back into it? Yeah, no, yeah.

35:20  
I think you know, couple of the lessons there are, we don't quit just because it gets hard, right? And I always say leadership is like a tight white spandex dress. Takes a lot of balls to wear it, right? And it's gonna show every flaw you have,

35:36  
yeah, yeah. It's funny. As soon as I left politics, you know, I lose 25 pounds. I feel great. I like, you know, and every person you see that leaves politics, it started like, wow, you know, you look so much better. It's like, did I really look that bad when I was in politics? I

35:55  
think it's the weight of all the things, right? It's not even just the physical weight, but it's,

35:59  
no, it's the mental it's the mental weight and and all of that too, that tremendous

36:03  
responsibility, like, right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely,

36:07  
yeah, no question. So

36:10  
I was also told that you were the first Premier of Manitoba to have around the clock security 24 hours. Yes, yes, I was Yeah. And I also was told that that was because people had made threats against your life and the lives of your children.

36:25  
So death threats against me, which extends to your family, but I wouldn't say to my children directly, no, you know, listen, I didn't like having people around me. It wasn't 24/7 once they dropped me off at home. They're not, you know, sitting in my living room till I wake up in the morning. You know, yeah, a parade I was going in, they had to beef up the security for that. And it's unfortunate that those things have to happen. But it was deemed to be a higher risk level than usual. And I think it was, you know, we were just starting to get into this time in politics, where it was that much worse and that much more dangerous. And I think, as a woman as well, think of all the parades you go in through rural Manitoba, and all the festivals that you go to. You're meeting a lot of people on any given time, and you just never know if someone's going to snap or what's going to happen. And there were some incidents, but I will tell you, the people the RCMP, were absolutely fantastic, wonderful people to work with. I had so much respect for the job that they do and that our that our police officers do across the board. Frankly, you know, think of what they deal with on a daily basis. They get up in the morning, they go out there. They have no idea, you know, what they're going to face on a daily basis. You know, similar to politics, but you know, I don't have, you know, I'm not facing someone with, you know, maybe a gun to my head, necessarily, right? So, yeah, you know, I have a lot of respect for those that that helped me and my family out during those times.

38:00  
But again, just another form of extreme stress of those situations. You know, I had a staff member who had some mental health problems and started to, you know, text me and say things to me, and, you know, very stalking, like behaviors and and I found it to be very unnerving, you know, being very alert all the time of who I'm seeing. Where are they? What's this look like? Is that the truck is that, you know, whatever, right? And just being kind of hyper aware all the time. It's like when I run early in the morning in places and I all the things I have to think about to keep myself safe, right? It's just one more load that I think women carry in a different way, not that men don't have to keep themselves safe or have different considerations, but I do think they're vastly different.

38:42  
Yeah, I was the first one in Manitoba, but we were the last in the country to have someone really overlooking their Yeah, every other province you know had security other than us. So, you know, it just sort of goes, you know, without, without saying that it was overdue and well overdue?

39:01  
Yeah, absolutely. I think it gives you the opportunity to do the job you've been elected to do, if you can feel safe in doing it, right and yeah, right. What do you hope your career has contributed to paving the way for future generations of women in politics? I hope that

39:17  
it encourages more women to get involved in politics at different levels. It doesn't necessarily have to be elected, you know, it could be behind the scenes, but get involved, get involved in public policy, making sure that you're involved with organizations that are, you know, framing public policy for us. And if you feel passionately about issues, get out and and and talk about those issues. Because I don't think as women, we're doing that enough, and I mean at a level where you are accountable for for advocating for what you believe in. It's not just getting out and bitching and complaining about things. It's about getting out and actually trying to to make a difference and make a change. And so I think you can get involved in different ways and then necessarily having to be elected. And I think that's just as important as

40:17  
well. Well, that's a great way to kind of round this off. I do have what I like to call the rapid fire ending round. All right, modified from the James Lipton, who used to do the Actors Studio. I don't know if you know who that is, but he used to have a television show, and he would interview people, and this is what he would do at the close of it. I've modified it just a little bit, but it's, I think, taken from the Proust questionnaire as well. So, Okay, you ready? Just one word, whatever comes to your mind. Ready? Sure? What's your favorite word?

40:45  
Boy, this is hard. Sorry, my favorite word is perseverance. What's your least favorite word?

40:53  
Negativity? What turns you on? Sloppiness, what turns you off? People who are rude, what sound or noise Do you love?

41:01  
I love the birds singing. Not crows, though, not crows.

41:07  
Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah. What sound or noise Do you

41:09  
hate? Shrill? Anything shrill? What is your favorite curse word set? I don't know

41:19  
what profession other than your own would you like to attempt?

41:23  
Oh, being Superwoman.

41:27  
What profession would you not

41:28  
like to do? I would not like to I don't know if there's anything I wouldn't try. Fair

41:35  
enough. Last question, what does strong like a girl mean about you?

41:40  
It means action, it means perseverance, it means integrity, it means standing up for yourself, and also it means recognizing that you're going to make mistakes, and that's okay. Lovely.

41:58  
Thank you so very much for your time. It has been a pleasure. I always enjoy my conversations with you, and I hope we get to have a lot more.

42:04  
Thanks, Tanya and I know we will have a lot more. Thanks again for doing this. I think it's so important.

42:10  
Thank you, team effort right women, helping women. Woo hoo. This is more than a slogan. It's a reminder of who we are, fierce, yet kind bold yet grounded. We own our power. We live unapologetically and we lift each other higher. Our strength is our birthright, our legacy, our way forward. Always wild, always strong, always like a girl, chin up, chest out, stay wild, stay strong like a girl, Subscribe and follow wherever you get your podcast and at strong like a girl.ca.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai